UNDERSTANDING BATTLE

very nice guide
much appreciated

Do you mind explaining what you mean by this:
Catapults : Speed is NOT used for battle purposes when stationary

Do you mind explaining what you mean by this:
Catapults : Speed is NOT used for battle purposes when stationary

What this means is that when a cat is paused, its speed rating is NOT used when factoring battlefield initiative. In other words, when paused, the cats speed will be ZERO! Keep this in mind when fighting a general with lower speed than yourself.

The general rule of thumb in modern warfare is that Artillery should always be on the move, never stationary, else its dead.

You arent talking about the effect of the range much... Does that pretty much mean that speed is the most important detail and then if the speed is equal for both units, the range has an effect.... And if its also the same who will atack first???

Theres always a debate as to whats more important....speed or range. Most every general on any haypi server will swear its speed. I myself refuse to get into the debate. Its like arguing apples and oranges. They operate outside of each others zones of control so theres no real way to say one is better, or more important. either can be the deciding factor in a battle, depending on the scenario.

The role that range plays in the battle is pretty cut and dry. If a unit is within range of another unit, it can be attacked or counterattacked. I will explain range fully in another guide, on battlefield strategies.

And to answer the question, range does not factor into who attacks first. Remember, each unit moves AND attacks in succession, not simultaneously, so a cav could attack cats, and then inf attack cats, and then archers attack cats all before the cats would get to move...the cats of course would be getting counterattacks in this scenario.

Edit: I'd like to note, I didn't get into range because this is a guide mainly for determining damage on the battlefield, and range is not a factor here (except in the case of cats and turrets, which deal LESS damage at close range. I haven't talked about this because I have yet to pinpoint the exact range at which this comes into play, but I will discuss it when I field test it enough).

good guide, is army stratagies out or when is it coming??

good guide, is army stratagies out or when is it coming??

Thanks.....it's mostly complete, but I'm waiting until I expose my war strats on s13 before I give it all away lol!
Should be soon, though!

Edit: there's some good stuff in there, though. It'll be well worth the wait!

[Backburner]

when cats are paused their speed isn't 0, they still attack first if a cat that's slower moves into range, it's only when the two players have exactly the same speed that's when the player moving forward will get first strike regardless of who is defending.

Also speed is more important than range somewhat, you only need about a level 7/8 shooting tech to take on someone with maxed range, if you have very high speed, your cat's movement will negate that little bit of extra range from your opponent.

The formula is false. I will give two example.

Test 1:

Attacker: 2000 Archers (fort troop) attack 60 X 2,000 = 120,000

Defender: Catapults Defense Attribute 99, max defense Tech

Result: 2000 Archers killed 70 Catapults.

How would you explain 2000 Archers with gross attack of 120,000 only killed 70 Catapults? Than means each catapult has defense rating of 1714?

Test 2

Attacker: 150 Catapult (fort troop) attack 300 x 150 = 45,000

Defender: Infantries Defense Attribute 99, max defense tech

Result: 150 catapults killed 211 infantries.

Even ignore all my defense attribute and tech, 150 catapults with gross attack of 45,000 should kill no more than 200 infantries. How did 150 catapults killed 211 infantries.

So perhaps I should not have neglected discussing range after all.
Two important things to remember here are:

1) npc units do not attack at base value, they essentially have an attack and defense rating of 20, just as you did when you first started. Additionally, I believe this is further raised according to the level of fort, though I have not yet pinpointed the rate.

2) ranged units deal significantly less damage when attacking from close range. This means cats, archers and turrets all deal less damage when attacking a unit close to them. Again, I am still reverse engineering the formula for which this penalty occurs, and will go into detail when I have absolute results.

In the meanwhile, your results could be explained several ways...

Firstly, be sure that you are reading your battlereports carefully and not going off of what you see on the field itself. At first glance, the results from test 1 appear to show the archers Counterattacking the cats.

All in all, I believe you are not presenting me with enough info about your battle to explain the results. Include your army size, and speed/range ratings are also factoring into how damage is being dealt here. For instance, those cats in test 2 should be killing many more than 200 inf....this leads me to believe that they are shooting from very close range.

when cats are paused their speed isn't 0, they still attack first if a cat that's slower moves into range, it's only when the two players have exactly the same speed that's when the player moving forward will get first strike regardless of who is defending.

Also speed is more important than range somewhat, you only need about a level 7/8 shooting tech to take on someone with maxed range, if you have very high speed, your cat's movement will negate that little bit of extra range from your opponent.

I'm sorry to say, but you are dead wrong about cats speed when standing still. A stationary cat will always attack last out of all units, regardless of it's speed rating. At this point, I am not aware of whether or not it would attack before or after a turret in this situation, however.

As for the speed vs range thing, I thank you for the insightful input, but I'd prefer if we did not discuss it under this thread. This guide is for determining battlefield damage, and i do not wish for people to go off topic with the old speed vs range tech debate. Thanks for your understanding!

Edit: Though I normally avoid the debate, if you start a new thread in general discussion about the merits of speed vs range, I'd be happy to discuss it with you!

[Backburner]

Ok, I am sorry to disagree but this is real basic stuff, if a cat have faster speed, when in range they will always attack first regardless of if they're moving forward, paused or backward.

Only time the pause applies is when both side have the same speed.

Feel free to try this out with a friend, make sure you two both have the same range level, do it in an oasis with 1 cat each if you have too much defenses at home. Make sure one person have a faster speed than the other, when in battle have the person with higher speed pause their cat and the other moving forward. The person with higher speed will attack first, first time and every time.